Curse

LifeInfusion · Jan 29, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Oh BTW I agree with Mathias Deathwater aout water being extremely useful.

SUPPORT:
Ward vs. Harm
Rust (3x longer signet cast time = warrior enemies die faster)
Blurred Vision (50% miss rate on ALL attacks by enemies)
Armor of Frost (Survivability in locations with no fire damage)
Frozen Burst (good for W/E, a 66% slower snare)
Maelstrom (a GREAT 10 second PvE interrupt for caster groups, Terror Web Dryders in particular)
Mist Form (like Blurred Vission, but 100% miss)
Water Trident (knockdown when the target moves)

As you can see, the skills that I like all do not really do damage. That is because water is a SUPPORT LINE.

Sereng Amaranth · Jan 29, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Earth - ... My only question is why Ward Against Harm is in the Water line.

because it gives extra armor against fire

Quote:

Water - Maybe someone would be gracious enough as to enlighten me here. I've yet to find anything in this line apart from subpar damage, redundant snares, and a handful of situational spells.

PvE mainly in my opinion. But there is at least 1 air spell that does extra damage to one under a water hex.

Quote:

Air - The spike line with utility.

Air spiking is very effective when done correctly. IWAY can be made useless. 5 Lightning Orbs followed by 5 Lightning Strikes can take out most any +10 regen and spike healing.

As for Earth, this can be used for terrific tanking as I can get 212 armor with 3 skills that can be maintained about 95% of the time.

Mathias Deathwater · Jan 29, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Maelstrom (a GREAT 10 second PvE interrupt for caster groups, Terror Web

Whoa... I can't believe I forgot to mention one of my favorite PvE skills. I must be losing it.

Oh, and I thought of another use for the snares. You know how IWAY warriors need to be close to do their damage? Enough said.

Pevil Lihatuh · Jan 29, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Mathias, glad you posted here, since Diablo 2 i love water and ice stuff, so I'll stick to my water ele

hehe

Akathrielah · Jan 29, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52

"Why nuking (and offensive Elementalists in general) sucks"

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=113319

>.>

Mathias Deathwater · Jan 29, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Glad I could help. It just irks me that people completely dismiss water. Of course, that IS the very reason I decided to go water, because noone else would.

Retribution X · Jan 29, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

It's the suckers who think that Ele's can't do anything but Nuke.

Ele's can REALLY cause damage to a single target, and completly reverse an IWAY group with lots of immolats and air spikes. they drop like fly's.

As to Mathias Deathwater, What element is better than water? really, none. Water, in short, has some of the best Elites for Ele. Water Trident, and their slowdown skills, and their anti-attack, and the hexes, can bring warriors to their knees.

The Mighty Toe · Jan 29, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I like to think I've seen what most classes can do. I've been an E/Me, E/Mo, E/N, E/R, W/Mo, W/N, W/Me, W/E, N,Me, Me/E, Me/N, R/Mo, R/Me, R/E and the list goes on...

But at the end of the day, I'll always come back to my E/R. I have tried every Element since the AoE nerf and didn't like any one of them apart from Water; and I've never looked back. Water is my favourite Element just for the diversity. With my Magic, I snare the enemy, make him miss with attacks and poison him with my arrows. Then I hit him with Barrage and set Booboo (My Bear) on him. Now tell me Water Magic's Rubbish.

Former Ruling · Jan 29, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Reason I stopped picking up Ele's anywhere: Most of them have IQ's of -50 and act like idiots now that their precise AoE was nerfed.

Like in this group the other day doing one of the Southern Shiverpeak's missions. Alot of Warriors, 2 monks, 2 eles. That used to be like..the "Hulk Smash" everywhere group. Ok, We go up to some Mesmer enemies, and they of course give every one of the close range party members a helping of speed reduce. Whats the Eles doing? Of course BOTH are casting Firestorm on the thing, so the next 10 secs or so turns into half our team limping around uselessly while the enemies are going every which way degening and killing our team.

Pevil Lihatuh · Jan 29, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

heh quite so, I'm like you Mathias. I refuse to be an echo nuker, or an SS necro. I play around to find the stuff I like. I've been a ranger from the start, who are always rejected unless trappers are wanted (i will trap, just coz thats downright fun

). As I said in my first post, most people want the quick, easy, thoughtless build, and to be honest, I can't blame them, but that means people like me who want to play something effective AND fun get rejected or forced into a different build. Hence I stick to my henchies. They love me no matter what, and as much as I hate Alesia and Mhenlo's healing, they're still 20 times better than most pug players.

Storn · Jan 29, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

I absolutely love Blinding Flash for my Air El. It has fast recharge and it ties up a htH combatent for 9 or 10 secs... giving that monk time to heal and/or run away. My first attack ALWAYS is to either Blind the enemy ranger or fighter.

But I tell Pugs that I'm using it and that my first spell is not going to be flashy. When our side is not getting hit as bad... folks come around.

Sereng Amaranth · Jan 29, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild

though eles have a monopoly in the new UW, most groups have 2-3 echo nukers in them

You have obviously never gone with an order group. 1 war for tanking, 5 barrage/interrupters, 1 order, 1 monk. OOV/OOP (+17 at 16 curses, +19 at 18 curses) + 3 targets (avg of 40dmg) + 5/1 vamp string (15hp) * 5 rangers = Almost 1000dmg per Barrage volley. That's every 2 seconds or less folks.

In comparison, 5 air ele spikers can do about 590 for every Orb volley, if my memory serves correctly.

Rayne Nightfyre · Jan 29, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleidd

I've yet to see a single request for a Ward Elementalist for a group.

Water - Maybe someone would be gracious enough as to enlighten me here. I've yet to find anything in this line apart from subpar damage, redundant snares, and a handful of situational spells.

Just as a FYI, an Earth+Water Elementalist absolutely rocks in the new Tombs area, in particular a Warder. Using Ward Against Elements along with the water spell Ward Against Harm, you'll be amazed how much it helps against those Dryders. Also, Ward Against Melee and Ward Against Foes is very effective when those lovely little Grasping Ghoul thingies come swarming in on your group. Also throwing Deep Freeze in the mix is a good idea for slowing enemies up a bit. And for some damage and knockdowns, put in Earthquake and Eruption. Don't forget Earth Attunement, it helps on energy costs a bit. But anyway, in my Tombs groups, I always make sure we have a warder in the group. It was kind of funny/obnoxious how there was one person in one of our groups, who I guess you could label as "noob," who was going on and on how useless a warder is. But to make a long story short, he lagged out while loading into the Courtyards, and we finished Tombs in a total of under 2 hours, lol. So Elementalists that use other magic besides Fire do deserve a chance, if they know what they're doing, they can be a huge help. As far as your comment towards water magic in general, imo the best use for it are the slowing spells, and the status-affecting spells such as Blurred Vision, which can pretty much temporarily shutdown an annoying tank enemy that won't leave your monks alone. But above all, playing an Elementalist takes more pre-battle thought, and more skill in general is required. So despite what anyone says, Eles are not useless :P

Kai Nui · Jan 30, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Well ever since the AI buff causing the enemies to scatter does make people who aren't particularly skilled in playing Elementalist just plain stink. It doesn't take a lot of skill in the first place to 'nuke' so I'm glad they made the monsters smart enough to get the heck out of there. Mesmer is a tough class to play with horrible armor and not too powerful skills, so most people don't want them with their party.

Tainek · Jan 30, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

If you think the mesmer has not to powerful skills, your are VERY sadly mistaken

we are however very tempermental, and need EXACTLY the right skills in PVE, for every area

Rayne Nightfyre · Jan 30, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Mesmer is a tough class to play with horrible armor and not too powerful skills, so most people don't want them with their party.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this comment. Mesmer is a harder class to play, true, and some say it is the hardest. It takes the most pre-battle thought of any profession. But they have the same armor rating as any of the other casters (60), and if you use Noble or Virtuoso armor, you'll have more armor while casting. Rogue's armor is also good for better defense. Also their spells are indeed very powerful, if you know what you're doing. If you have 16 in Domination, put Backfire on an enemy monk. All it has to do is do its usual Orison spamming, so 3 Orisons would deal a quick 450-ish damage(~150 per), likely finishing off that enemy. Mesmers are all about taking out tough enemies, and very quickly. But sadly what you said is what most people do think, that simply being because they have not tried truly playing as a mesmer. But in a group that actually plays the game as it is meant to be played, not using "book tricks," etc, that is where Mesmers shine. Many whine how impossible Thunderhead is. Try having a mesmer in your party, one that targets the effectiveness of the bosses at the end. For that annoying Monk boss, use combos such as Arcane Conundrum, Power Spike, Power Leak, and Cry of Frustration. That slows its casting time, making it very easy to interupt. If it's the Perfected Armor you're having trouble with, use spells like Ineptitude(elite), Clumsiness, Empathy, and Soothing Images. This blinds the enemy, damages it every time it attacks, and prevents it from gaining adrenaline. So overall, a Mesmer is very powerful, you just need a knowledge of their skills, and a little thought as to what enemies you'll be facing.

Mavrik · Jan 30, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

I deleted my Ele for a Mesmer and have been having a lot of fun. Now I have to admit part of my reason behind deleting the Ele was because of the AoE nerf. I had months of playing the nuker, bombing the hell out of everything. It was a pretty brainless build that I had. With over 70 energy, I could cast firestorm, meteor shower, rogarts invocation, pheonix and what not in any order I wanted to killing pretty much everything I was up against because they just stood around. With the nerf nothing I was habit set into worked. I couldn't get around it or think up anything that worked. So I deleted her and made a mesmer.

Now the Mesmer is a totally different class of its own, very challanging to get something working right for you. If course though, like with my ele... I developed habits. This time however with the mesmer think build... good habits. I can interupt skills, I can energy or life drain. As mentioned... THK... I was shutting down everything I could... the main difficulty of the mission was not those I was up against, but those I was teamed with. I wasn't doing much damage against the Jade's but they couldn't get their skills cast as long as I had an interupt charged and ready to go.

I don't see Ele's becoming the new mesmer. I see the mesmer becoming that the Ele was before the nerf. People like myself, had to have our normal routine broken so we could see what else was out there. Instead of nuking (granted it was fun) I go into battle with stratagy and plans. To those who hate mesmer... remember how annoying it is to face a mesmer boss. Now think of what it would be like to have a mesmer on your team. Instead of being shut down and drained, your doing it. Mesmer shine in their own way indeed. Love thy mesmer. I love mine.

BBoy_Manchild · Jan 30, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

i welcome mesmers and earth/water eles in my group all the time, i appreciate the mesmers and off-normal eles

Markaedw · Jan 30, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

I like the mesmer, my first PvP like everyone else was the searing. 2 mesmers, stepan and alesia. We look at each other and decide to go out fighting. We hex everyting that moves, and steam roll them 11-1.

Lets face it "I'm a wammo with a sup absorbtion and Droks",

cool "I'm a mesmer that cast hexes that ignore armor" we can melt their life right out of them.

Leddy · Jan 30, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

My old guildbattle/Halls Ele build tanked damage better than 55 monks and tank warriors, but only if I was casting continously. Usually we'd run two of them (my friend was better at it than I was), where we'd tie up the entire other guild trying to kill a single Ele, while the rest of us walk up the back while they're too frustrated with the invincible ele to notice that they're getting ganked.

But that was aaaggeeees ago. They've nerfed Ether Renewal twice since, I think.